Tuesday, April 14, 2009

PA tea party doings

This e-mail came today from one of our PA state reps........

Tea Anyone?

April 14, 2009

In just another day, April 15th will be here. This is the day we are all reminded of how much of our hard-earned wages are lifted by government – at all levels. From the property tax to the sales tax, to the State and federal income tax, to the myriad of fees on literally everything, to the excise taxes, to taxes when you are born to taxes when you die, we are taxed on almost everything.

It’s not that every tax is onerous or evil. Some may not like any tax. But, taxes are a legitimate way to fund legitimate government. It’s just that when government begins to spend our tax dollars on unconstitutional programs or bailouts and then expects us to continue to dig ever deeper to fund those illegitimate programs that folks develop a very bad taste in their mouths. And like bad tastes in our mouths, normal folks try to get rid of that bad taste. It’s only normal.
So, the focus of the April 15th Tea Parties provides the opportunity to people across this Commonwealth and nation to gather peaceably together to say that we’re tired of that very bad taste. But is it the taxes that are the cause of this very bad taste or is it something else? The truth be told, taxes aren’t the cause, they are the symptom. Out of control, unconstitutional and illegitimate spending is the cause. Illegitimate spending is why a crumbling economic system confronts us today. Illegitimate spending including unconstitutional programs, bailouts, subsidizing of those who don’t or won’t work and earmarks of all types to the favored few identify both the cause and the solution. The solution: quit spending on unconstitutional programs, quit spending on government programs that compete with private non-profits and churches that exist to meet the needs of the needy, and quit spen ding on things that grow the size of government beyond the restraints of constitutional boundaries! Just let the people keep their own money! The solution is very simple –if you support the concept of independence and personal freedom. I think the solution is easy to see, a little harder to accomplish, but impossible to oppose – if you support the concept of independence and personal freedom.

So, if you have not yet decided to attend a “Tea Party” on Wednesday, please plan on doing so. It will be good for you, your children, and the cause. I will be one of the speakers at the “Tea Party” in the front steps of the Capitol in Harrisburg beginning at 12:00 noon and at Lancaster Tax Day Tea Party at 4:00 in Musser Park. Hope to see some of you at one of these events.

For the Cause of Independence and Personal Freedom,
State Representative Sam RohrerDistrict 128 – Berks County

(For Judy)





Crucis said...

My Wife and I will be attending the KC Tea Party. This is the 2nd one here in KC. The first in February had an attendance estimated at 30K. Estimates for tomorrow are in the 100K neighborhood.

I'll post some pics on my blog if any are presentable. We've been warned to be on the lookout for ACORN protesters trying to disrupt the Tea Party.

Judy K said...

Good points...but the crumbling economic system in my opinion is not due to illegitimate spending, but rather greed and poor decisions in an under-reglated or unregulated financial system. The greed started with everyday people wanting more than they could reasonably afford, and continues throughout the system. These poor decisions are leading to more illegitimate spending, most notably - corporate welfare. But let's be honest with ourselves and take some responsibility for our lifestyle... and learn from our mistakes. I applaud you for standing up and taking a stance. Enjoy your tea party.

Carteach0 said...

Under-regulated..... or badly regulated? How about criminally regulated?

Let us not forget Senators Dodd and Obama, the two highest recipients of campaign funds from Fanni Mae and Freddie Mac.

Recall Dodd.... who swore up and down the institutions were healthy and needed no more regulation, when the Bush administration called for it and forecast exactly what happened.

The genesis of our economic meltdown was the collapse of the overinflated housing market, which in turn was fueled by incredibly bad lending policies, which were in turn shaped by unconscionable political dealings and the arm twisting of vote greedy politicians bending to the will of special interest groups. The lenders were clearly at fault, as were the people who took loans they knew they could never afford.... but at the top of that pile were political hacks threatening the lenders with federal action if they didn't make sub prime loans without regard to fiscal responsibility.

Corporate welfare is, and has been, a huge problem. It begins with a twisted incestuous relationship between politicians, regulators, and corporate donors. Neither political party escapes that brush.
It only gets worse.... and has now accelerated roughly 400% under the new administration and Congress.

Could our financial systems be more, or better, regulated? By who? Congress? A body with more criminals as members than any other institution outside the federal prison system.

Crucis said...

"Congress? A body with more criminals as members than any other institution outside the federal prison system."

I've not heard it said better.


Judy K said...

Based on your view of congress, how could you trust them to govern at all? regardless of ideology? There will be criminals in congress, as there is a bell shaped curve of criminal activity throughout our society.

I don't understand this: "political hacks threatening the lenders with federal action if they didn't make sub prime loans without regard to fiscal responsibility"... can you elaborate with an example?

Carteach0 said...


I don't trust them, at all, nor do I think anyone should trust any government. History shows that few governments can ever be trusted, as they attract the worst in people, as much as the best.

That's why I believe in our SYSTEM of government, a constitutional republic, where government itself is limited by the basic principles and laws it's founded upon.

The problem begins when our government oversteps those constitutional limitations. It does so now with blatant disregard and a near total abandonment of the rule of law. The bulk of what our federal government now takes upon itself in the way of power and authority are either not granted it, or prohibited to it by the constitution if read as originally written. Yes, I am an 'originalist' in that regard.

As for the governments role in our present economic troubles, look into the 'Community Reinvestment Act' (1972 I think), and it's effect on lending practices. Lending institutions were hauled before congressional hearings and questioned (at ACORNS behest) on their minimum loan application standards. They were told to lower the standards... or else. Some lending institutions did so under duress, others did so gleefully and then created a new derivatives market with the ballooning sub-prime loans.

You'll have to do your own research, and you will find those who say that Congress had little or nothing to do with it. I believe otherwise. On the post, I am appending a few links for you to begin with, including the revised testimony at Barney Franks hearings. On those, you have to read between, behind, and beyond the prepared testimony to see a glimmer of the truth. It's all much clearer in hindsight, given the results we now all live with.

Old NFO said...

It will be interesting to see what kind of coverage the MSM has on this tomorrow...

Judy K said...

Thanks. After reading the 2 editorials and watching some of the CRA hearing, I have a better understanding of what you are saying. Here's another question. I now understand the "pressure" that ACORN put on the banks, but what federal action was threatened if the banks did not comply?

Carteach0 said...

They were told to prepare for investigations under the 'fair housing' act, Sec. 800. [42 U.S.C. 3601]. Banks and lending institutions are regulated, heavily, despite the recent media attention. Like most regulations, they are selectively enforced. Such enforcement can be truly destructive to a commercial enterprise, even the threat is enough to make most fold.

Judy, all the history aside, do you have any idea the debt our country is being snowed under with? As bad as previous administrations were, in various ways, the new one makes them pale in comparison. In the first three months of his presidency, President Obama has signed legislation taking on more national debt than all the previous presidents in our nations history.... combined.

Judy said...

Thanks. I am very concerned with the debt, which is why I'm trying to better understand the conservative views on these issues. I am mostly concerned with the impact of this massive debt on our national security. How can we protect our country if we are dependent on borrowing money from other countries to do so? I guess I just don't see a way out of this recession without massive influx of gov't funded programs. Although nobody can really explain what would happen if we just let nature take it's course. The domino effect of our major industries plus the banks going under is something I can't comprehend...but I suspect that would have a much greater negative impact on our liberty and pursuit of happiness than the current stimulus plans (with all it's problems).

On another note, I've realized the last few weeks with the violence in Mexico that so much of what we fight is directly related to our drug addiction. Drug money made to support our insatiable appetite for drugs seems to fund nearly every aspect of violence in this world. It's somewhat ironic. Perhaps we need to focus our government programs on that...I would pay a dollar a day in taxes to develop more programs that demonstrate a significant reduction in illicit drug abuse in this country.

Carteach0 said...

Judy, you cover many questions and points.... and it can be difficult to get to all of them in such a limited venue as this.

Sounds like.... you need to write a blog! :-)

I understand your questions. None are easy, all are troublesome, and all deserve the work it takes to understand them and seek answers.

Lets take this thought: "I guess I just don't see a way out of this recession without massive influx of gov't funded programs."

The problem here.... where does that money come from? Go back a page on this blog and look for a post titled 'Motivations'. In it I detail some thoughts about government and money.

There ARE NO government funds. Government exists solely by taking the wealth generated by working Americans and redistributing it.

The way our Federal government is being run today, fiscally, there is no more tax money money to spend. They have spent it all, and borrowed against it to the point you can't possible pay enough taxes to cover the bill. In fact, your children will not be able to pay the debt either. Now they are simply creating money out of thin air to pay the tab, and that is called inflation. It makes your hard earned wealth (Your bank account, your home, your car, your paycheck) worth less, because the wealth has been taken from you and used to make their new dollars valuable.

How to put this situation into an analogy....

Take a large family living in a big house. Mom and Dad don't work outside the home... but about half the kids do. The parents are taking a little more than half everything each working kid makes, and using it to support the other half. The working kids are paying rent and buying their own food, the other kids just live 'off the family', and so do Mom and Dad. Now, Mom and Dad have some bad habits. They can't manage money, are used to living a better life than everyone else, and are certain their children owe them everything. Mom and Dad have taken out loans to support not only the household, but a lifestyle for the 'house management' far better than any of the working kids enjoy. BIG loans... to the point the house has been mortgaged for 400% of it's value. On top of that, they have structured these loans so the kids are on the hook for them... and their grandkids.

It's gotten to the point where the kids who work and support the entire household are looking at almost total confiscation of the money they make from working, all in the name of 'Taking care of your brothers and sisters'. Not only do they have too little left to support themselves, but they are being told daily that they are rich and selfish and should just shut up and work harder.

Mom and Dad have just quadrupled the size of this years loans, and are demanding more.... and more... and more from the few kids left who are working for a living.

You see.... we can analyze the sad plight of the 'poor non working kids' and their greedy Parents all day, but what gets missed in the discussion is the slavery going on in the house.

Slavery.... is what happens when someone takes the fruits of your labor at gun point. It is evil. Perhaps the worst evil of all. Dressing it up in 356,000 pages of tax code and calling it 'sharing the wealth' does not make it any less evil.

Another point:
"The domino effect of our major industries plus the banks going under is something I can't comprehend...but I suspect that would have a much greater negative impact on our liberty and pursuit of happiness than the current stimulus plans (with all it's problems)."

Yes... and no. Would cascading bankruptcies be a harsh blow? Certainly. We'll leave aside governments role in helping cause the situation, and think about outcomes. What are they? Bankruptcies and business failures would cause heavy unemployment and much hardship for some years, until the economy could recover. I'm sorry to say, but each time our nation has faced this in the past, (a) government regulation made the recovery slower, and (b) we usually got involved in a major war to stimulate the economy and thin the population.

Yes.... all the failures would be bad for a while. Real bad, and for years. But... what is the other option? We are faced now with nationalization of the banking industry, the automotive industry, health care, and energy production. It's traditional name is Socialism, and it's not something that lasts a few years. It lasts for generations until the nation collapses or their is bloody revolution.

Judy.... take a little while and study the history of nations which have gone that route. See how many people died (the ultimate loss of civil rights), and how those countries ended up. Every time.

Mexico and drugs? That is a whole 'nuther topic, and worth it's own post and discussion. :-)

Carteach0 said...

Judy, May I post our comment stream, and see if anyone else will join the discussion? It's an interesting one, and I'd like to hear other viewpoints.

judy said...